Brazil Becomes Middle Class But Not Bourgeois
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Brazil Becomes Middle Class But Not Bourgeois
Written by John Fitzpatrick
Sunday, 24 August 2008 04:28
Statistics published by the FGV (Getúlio Vargas Foundation) business school show that almost 52% of households now earn between 1,064 and 4,591 Brazilian reais a month and are in the "C" class. (These figures amount roughly to US$ 625 and US$ 2,700, respectively.)
Although this means that statistically speaking these Brazilians are as middle class as any bowler-hatted, brolly-twirling Englishman, Brazil is still far from being a bourgeois nation in the European sense. Moreover, these results certainly do not mean that the poor are no longer with us.
The economist in charge of the study, Marcelo Néri, said the main reasons for this breakthrough were the rise in the formal workforce and the growing economy. Although President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva is the least middle class person who has ever held or is ever likely to hold the Presidency, he can boast that his policies have lifted millions into the middle class.
The survey shows that an estimated 20 million Brazilians have moved up the social scale over the last six years. Lula will be hoping that these new upwardly socially mobile Brazilians will show their gratitude by backing his candidate for the next presidential election - Dilma Rousseff is the current favorite - and his own candidacy if he chooses to seek office again in 2014.
As for ideology, Lula is too much of a pragmatist to feel that he may have "betrayed" his socialist past by turning the workers away from revolution and class warfare and towards bourgeois respectability, a house in the suburbs and a barbecue in the back garden.
Lula certainly deserves credit for overseeing economic growth which has led to record formal employment while implementing social programs which have improved the lot of millions of the poorest citizens. Another contributory factor has been the demographic revolution which has reduced the birth rate, as former finance minister, Antonio Delfim Netto, pointed out. The average Brazilian family had 1.6 children in 2001 compared with 5.8 in 1970.
However, being middle class in a European sense is not entirely linked to income. It means having a status which families will do anything to maintain. The English, in particular, are obsessed with the issue. George Orwell once described his background as being "lower upper middle class". The Irish playwright, George Bernard Shaw, once wrote with spot-on accuracy: "The moment an Englishman opens his mouth, another Englishman despises him."
How the middle class cope with genteel poverty is a recurring theme of English literature from Dickens, Somerset Maugham, Orwell, John Fowles and up to contemporary writers like Ruth Rendell. Who can forget Mr. Micawber's motto which he never managed to live up to and ended up in prison for defaulting on his debt: "Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds and six, result misery."
Maugham's "Of Human Bondage" is a classic example. The decision by the main character, Philip Carey, at the end of the book to renounce all the expectations of his middle class background and marry a simple girl whose father is a waster and mother an illiterate peasant was revolutionary for its time.
Maugham's short story "The Outstation", set in Borneo in the 1920s, is one of the greatest portrayals of the ridiculousness of the English class system. Snobbery is personified in the character of the colonial official Mr. Warburton who dresses for dinner every evening even though he lives alone in the middle of the tropical forest and reads a six-week old copy of "The Times" at breakfast.
Orwell's "A Clergyman's Daughter" covers the plight of the lower middle classes trying to hang onto their respectability, with the clergyman's daughter, Dorothy Hare, knowing that if things get any worse in her life the next level down is prostitution. The same is true for Sarah Woodruff in Fowles's classic "The French Lieutenant’s Woman".
J. B. Priestley's superb novel "Angel Pavement" has a memorable scene in which an impoverished middle class clerk, Turgis, decides to kill himself but fails when his gas meter runs out and he has no money to get it going again.
This obsession with class and status is probably best seen in "The Diary of a Nobody" by George and Weedon Grossmith, which created one of the most unforgettable characters in English literature, Charles Pooter of The Laurels, Brickfield Terrace, Holloway and his efforts to maintain his station in society in Victorian England.
In Brazil's case, being middle class is strictly related to income rather than family background, manners, the school you went to or accent. I imagine level for entry to the middle class was arrived at by multiplying the monthly minimum wage, which currently stands at 415 reais, by around two and a half times for the lower level and by 10 times for the top level.
The fact that an entire family can be regarded as middle class by having an income of just over US$ 600 highlights how low wages still are in Brazil. In world terms Brazil is in 71st place in terms of per capita income. Even within Latin America, it comes in 19th place, according to the national statistics institute, the IBGE, and the World Bank.
While the upper end of the income figure - 4,591 reais - is probably enough to give a family with two children a middle class life style comparable with that of a western European country, I am not so sure the same is true of the lower figure.
These figures apply to six big state capitals: São Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, Belo Horizonte, Salvador, Recife and Porto Alegre. I know São Paulo well and Rio to a lesser extent and cannot believe that a whole family can live a middle class life in either of these places on just over 1,000 reais a month.
In fact, entering the middle class can bring many disadvantages and borderline cases might be better off remaining in the "D" group. This may sound perverse but the reality is that the middle class pays taxes while the working class and those in the informal sector do not. Workers can earn up to 1,373 reais before they start paying income tax at a rate of 15% up to 2,743 reais when it rises to 27.5%. Contributions to the state pension scheme can range from 8% on a wage of 911 reais to 11% up to 3,038 reais.
Taxpayers get very little for their contributions and middle class people are burdened with additional expenses, usually related to school fees, private health insurance plans and security i.e. living in blocks of flats with round the clock security. All this comes at a price. It can easily cost 1,000 reais to send a child to school and the condominium costs on even a modest building can come to 1,000 reais. A decent monthly health plan for a family can also reach 1,000 reais.
To pay all this means earning piles of money or taking out loans. As the economy has expanded and price stability has become established, the government has relaxed credit regulations and loans are easy to come by. Bank and finance houses are scrambling to offer loans to working class and middle class families to buy cars, homes and electronic appliances.
This means that a "new" middle class family in Brazil may well have no real assets to fall back on in case of an emergency and may have a long line of debts to be paid off.
The magazine Época gave a good example of one of these new members of the middle class. She is a 34-year-old manicurist called Josineide Mendes Tavares who lives with her two young children in the Rocinha favela in Rio de Janeiro. She visits her clients in their homes in the rich districts of Rio and earns between 1,500 and 2,000 reais a month. She and her children live in a tiny house ("casinha") measuring 35 square meters (377 square feet).
She has a new 29-inch television with access to cable and a DVD, a dishwasher and stylish clothes. She has just bought a fridge and freezer on credit and is about to buy her third mobile phone which she uses to keep in touch with her clients. Statistically this woman fits in with the definition of the new middle class but no European or American would consider someone living in conditions like this as being middle class.
In fact it might be better to describe these people as "middle income" and forget European ideas of class completely. As Delfim Netto, who oversaw the boom years of the 60s and 70s, put it: "The size of the income is not as important as the fact that the people feel they have made progress. A wage plus readily abundant credit allows them to buy middle class goods."
John Fitzpatrick is a Scottish writer and consultant with long experience of Brazil. He is based in São Paulo and runs his own company Celtic Comunicações. This article originally appeared on his sitewww.brazilpoliticalcomment.com.br. He can be contacted at jf@celt.com.br This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it .
© John Fitzpatrick 2008
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Comments (34)
We don't mind what American or European people think.
written by Carles, August 24, 2008
European/American (middle class thats fynny)
European people use to come to Brasil like rats inside the ships, carrying 10 children plus one on the womb. Starving, full of deseases.
So what they think about us is not important remember who came down here and asked for food in the first time were the Europeans.
Another thing: its time to Think "What do the Chinese think about Brazil?"
America is broken and they will take Europe with them.
Bad Luck!!!
Congrats!
written by Flavio, August 24, 2008
Hey John!
Loved the article. The explanation of the difference between an European (or English) middle class and a the Brazilian emerging middle class is just fantastic!
The analysis about Lula's part in this process is also excellent. I'm actually having a hard time to find someone with an unbiased view like yours to comment on Brazil's politics and economics. Everyone here is either extremely in favor or extremely against Lula's government. No one is in the middle, or outside to make a REAL analysis of Brazil's situation.
Thanks
Flavio
Sao Paulo
warning about the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow
written bymichaelj, August 24, 2008
This is good news for Brazil. An improving economy and empowerment of the people is a wonderful transformation. As this then continues there is something to keep your eyes on in your own behavior... But you may not see it for years, and America is the perfect example of this problem.
More money means more buying power and consumption. Credit adds gas to the consumerism fire. In America we regularly outpace our earnings by spending. The temptation is overwhelming. Every dollar spent feels like a reward, even when you spend the borrowed money after a while.
Today in America many are running into the wall and have taken on too much debt and are struggling to maintain our over extended lives. I know, poor poor rich Americans, but it's the same core problem everyone will face with consumerism on an extreme scale.
The lesson to learn is simple. When we over extend ourselves financially in what feels like reward is actually a pair of golden hand cuffs. Credit is dangerous yet a powerful tool in carefully chosen amounts. Keep yourself free by keeping more and spending less.
classe média a;ta in Brazil = classe média in Europe
written by Kauan, August 24, 2008
classe média
hum num sei
até na Rocinha tem a internete, a gente é de classe média?
...
written by João da Silva, August 24, 2008
As Delfim Netto, who oversaw the boom years of the 60s and 70s, put it: "The size of the income is not as important as the fact that the people feel they have made progress. A wage plus readily abundant credit allows them to buy middle class goods."
Lula & Delfim know what is good for the Brazilians. Men of long vision.
A Correction
written by João da Silva, August 24, 2008
Men of long vision.
I meant to say "Men of long term vision" and "Great visionaries".
To Carles the brazilian junkie !
written by ch.c., August 24, 2008
Your "European people use to come to Brasil like rats inside the ships"
1) What are your sources ? You should have some in view of your apparent knowledge.
2) dear idiot, let me state loudly and clearly that if you are not from an Indian tribe origin, you are talking about your own ancestrors !!!!!! Funny isnt it ? Feel free to call your ancestrors as rats.
3) to my own knowledge that you can cross check by yourself, it is the Brazilian government who opened the country to whites,......to WHITEN THE COUNTRY ! Meaning if you are not 100% white, the probabilities are high that YOURSELF has been crossbred with a Brazilian black slave at one point in time in the history of your family ancestrors.
4) Lets face it once more, You Carles based upon your theory, are not more Brazilian than the ones you accuse, unless you are from an Indian tribe.
5) Feel free as you wish to call the Brazilians whites, the Brazilians browns or the Brazilians blacks....as NON Brazilians. You should be one of them anyway.
6) Furthermore, to my knowledge it is due to the whites you are accusing that the South of the country is the most developed and the most wealthy and not due to the technology and knowledge from your Indians. Without these whites you would be without a car, without a tractor, without a PC. You would be as developed as the Vanuatu Islands tribes or the Sub Sahara.
Your idioty is realy impressive.
If you play futbol you should be the king of auto goals !
More simple there is not.
Laugh....laugh....laugh....laugh....laugh....laugh !
Somewhat funny " Brazil Becomes Middle Class But Not Bourgeois "
written by ch.c., August 25, 2008
As per IBGE own stats the average monthly income in the six wealthiest metropolitan regions is BRL 1250.- or so !
Meaning a much lower average in the majority parts of the country.
Also on average even in the six wealthiest metro regions, 1 average income feeds more than 1 person.
A Brazilian teacher should be middle class, with at least an average income, but is not so as per Buarque recent article.
An average middle class person has a car, even a small one. Brazil car fleet is around 24 millions, 1 per 8 capita !!!!!
The GDP PPP adjusted per capita is higher in MOST Mercosur countries than in Brazil !
Facts and stats then prove that most Mercosur countries have a higher middle class. Further confirmed by the stats Brazil has the highest wealth inequality of all of the Mercosur countries and close to the worst in the world.
But Brazilians firmly insist they are far far far superior to the other Mercosur members.....as usual.
Wellllllll....here it is......GDP PPP per capita :
Brazil US$ 9700.-
Argentina 13300.-
Uruguay 11700.-
Venezuela 12200.-
Paraguay 4500.-
I feel sorry for you. You are the second POOREST !
Stop caressing your navel, start scratching your head !!!!!!
Not over : your real GDP per capita is US$ 6850.- non PPP adjusted. that explains better your low car fleet per capita.
Funny also that your paved roads are even less that your official stats because everyone can go to the World Cia Factbook and read for Brazil :
total: 1,751,868 km
paved: 96,353 km
unpaved: 1,655,515 km (2004)
Paved roads to be adjusted downward in view of the millions and millions of potholes in 50 % of your "not so paved roads".
I can only suppose that in view of your car fleet growth rate and your 5,5 % of actual paved roads available (in fact 2,75 % without potholes) your traffic jams will expand outside of your cities and highways will also become traffic jams. Otherwise driving in potholes roads or non paved roads will be expensive for cars maintenance and repairs.
But that will be good for foreign cars manufacturers, because none are Brazilian.
Conclusion : Your Propaganda department in the Palacio do Planalto - Brasilia is doing a great job : they manipulate stats, they lie, and you applaude and caress your navel !
Who are the real idiots ? the ones lying and manipulating or the ones swallowing their lies ?
...
written by Ric, August 25, 2008
Yes, the Brazilian Idle Rich caress their navels, and many of the women tweezer out their body hair one at a time out of sheer boredom.
Gente boa é outra coisa.
´1) What are your sources ? You should have some in view of your apparent knowledge. ´
written by history book, August 26, 2008
Starting after slavery was abolished, any primer on Brazilian history will show how waves of dirt poor Euoropeans looking for a better life came to Brasil.
...
written by Carles, August 26, 2008
I LOVE CHINA!!!!!!
...
written by Carles, August 26, 2008
THE TRUTH HURTS!!!! ah ah ah ah ah
Bourgeois??????????
written by Pietrito, August 26, 2008
Students will investigate the reasons Italians left their homeland. Between 1880 and 1920 over four million Italians were recorded as entering the United States. No other ethnic group has sent so many immigrants in such a short time. Prior to the 1870's only scattered thousands of Italians had come to areas outside of Europe to either North or South America. Up to 1900 most Italians had emigrated to either Argentina or Brazil. Those entering the United States were mostly male and many intended to return to Italy after making some money. However, for various reasons many of them ended up staying in America.
(Daniels,p.18
Much has been written about the suffering and discrimination encountered by the Italian immigrant in the United States, but this must be measured against what they left behind at home in Italy. The immigrant at this time left one thing behind and that was poverty. At home there was unemployment, and underemployment, high mortality, little or no medical care, little or no schooling, poor housing, semi-starvation, rigid class structure, and exploitation. (Mangione,p.25.) A very dismal picture, to say the least. For the average Italian migration was an opportunity for liberation; the hope for a better life. After all wasn't the United States supposed to be the land of opportunity where the "streets were paved with gold?" This would be a good time for teachers to stop and ask students what would motivate them to leave their country of birth? There are always students in my class who are foreign born and are willing to relate their stories to other members of the class.........
To history book the real idiot !
written by ch.c., August 26, 2008
- since you are not a primer, tell us your sources for once...if you can.
Did you also got your Masters Degree in history from the SP Univeraity....found in detergent packs ?
- Funny your statement "Starting after slavery was abolished" because there is no need to go to an history book or your Constitution to find out that slavery was abolished only with words, not in real life.
Thousands of slaves are freed yearly even in 2008 as per your own stats. And this despite your Vice President publicly announced there are no slaves in Brazil sugarcane fields.
Who is lying ?
A) Your Constitution
B) Your news and stats about freeing slaves
C) Your Vice President
D) All of the above because B is only the tip of the iceberg
Ohhh and concerning the Brazil Middle Class, why dont you read today article in this site on the so generous annual interests rates they pay for cars loans at 33 %, consumers loans at 53 % and 163 % for overdrafts when inflation is around 4-7 % ???????
You see the real idiots are not the lenders but the borrowers allowing and even applauding when they are taken for a ride.
And based on the article, the minimum number of idiots in Brazil stands at 100 millions.
Feel free to continue your applauses to the ones you elected.
They work hard for you to remain as idiot as you have been teached to be. This is the the base of their ideology : "the brazilian education should create idiots not clever and educated people, so that the minority elite can continue to take the idiots they created for many more rides"
Red faced ? You better be so by applauding the interests rates you are charged !!!!!
Brazilians Junkies will remain junkies for centuries to come !
This is the only promise Bin the Crook and his sucessors will deliver !
You have no idea of how I keep laughing ! So much I have stomach pain !
...
written by ..., August 27, 2008
Holy laughing icons!!
Unrealistic Expectations
written by AUGUSTUS, August 27, 2008
It appears that Brazil's excessive over-confidence is out of control!
As much as it hurts agreeing with the European Hyena's criticisms, it is an undeniable fact that Brazil is not entitled to claim such "middle class" status for most of its citizens...
To lower the standards to fit Certan "categories" is not only unfair but it also compromises the way foreign countries would view Brazil's intentions...
The example of a "Rocinha" resident to be considered Middle-Class is absolutely hilarious and... very sad! It is not surprising that we find unfriendly "Hyenas" in this blog, continuously laughing at the nation, humiliating our country at every step... After reading this article, their arguments are easily reinforced, and their "laughter" is even understandable...
Perhaps after the crumbling infra-structure is addressed, the under priviledged educated, and metropolitan crime waves addressed, unused land distributed to the homeless, and less income disparity can be certified... maybe THEN, the anti-Brazilian "hyenas" of the world can be silenced, and real, honest gains can be proudly displayed for the world to see... Not Now!
Well done Brasil
written byJohn Cox, August 27, 2008
That's great news, but I really think Brasil has a long way to go.
Why the hysteria from some of the commentors? Is it because they cannot read and comprehend.
written by The Guest, August 30, 2008
The last paragraph of the article which I copied below speaks for its self.
"In fact it might be better to describe these people as "middle income" and forget European ideas of class completely. As Delfim Netto, who oversaw the boom years of the 60s and 70s, put it: "The size of the income is not as important as the fact that the people feel they have made progress. A wage plus readily abundant credit allows them to buy middle class goods."
In the USA a few short years ago prior to the current housing debacle, quite a few people of the "middle class" who were making over $50,000.00 a year but could not afford the rent for an apartment. They slept in their cars and took showers at the gym. Now, add the current housing crisis to the mix, what would you call these people, "middle class or middle income?" I call them "middle income" who cannot afford "to buy middle class goods," and even if they could they have no place to put these goods.
At least Brazil's "middle income" earners have some thing to look froward to instead of the bleak prospect below.
Middle class barely treads water, 9/15/2003
By Christine Dugas, USA TODAY
"Millions of middle-class families can no longer afford to live on two incomes.
A generation ago, a typical American middle-class family lived on the income of a single breadwinner. In recent years it has taken two working spouses to live the modern middle-class dream. Now, it seems even that is not enough to survive the skyrocketing cost of housing, health care and college while saving for retirement and shouldering growing debt loads.
Bill and Terry Will of Chesapeake, Va., together earn about $70,000 a year, and yet it's a struggle to provide for their family and pay off their credit card debt. Terry, 44, is a nurse and Bill, 50, manages a warehouse that ships food and supplies to other countries.
The Wills have five children at home, ages 2 to 17. They budget every penny and have no savings, no college fund, no retirement nest egg.
Like many middle-class families — often broadly defined as those earning $25,000 to $99,999 — the Wills have little room to maneuver if something unexpected comes up. They barely survived when Bill's job as an oil company sales manager was eliminated in 1999. They came close to losing their home and nearly ended up in bankruptcy before they went to a non-profit credit counseling agency for help.
What happened to the Wills is being repeated in legions of middle-class homes across the USA. With personal bankruptcy at an all-time high, it's mostly the middle class that gets trapped: 92% of the record 1.6 million filers in the year ended June 30 were middle class, according to a Harvard University study.
The Wills acknowledge that they didn't know much about managing money before they went into debt counseling, but they didn't live beyond their means.
"We didn't have cable TV before, and we still don't," Terry says. "We used credit cards to pay for diapers, food and school stuff.""
Brazil
written by Paul James Oliphant , August 31, 2008
If Brazil is doing so well, try and tell the poor millions that who are living in poverty in the favelas.
Fan
written by JamesL, September 02, 2008
Brasil like many countries has social and economic problems. Brasil's government, like most governments, has it's own set of issues. Comparing who's problems are bigger or who's government is more corrupt, is like comparing the wetness of water from one river to another.
Getting back to the point here. Brasil says the middle class is earning enough to be considered "middle class" and in truth if you spend any time in Sao Paulo or Rio you will quickly find that this "classification" could very well be a national average not unlike the way the US says that the "middle class" earns $XX, when one can only dream of living in, or near, any major city in the US with such income.
From a market perspective. Brasil is huge. From a production perspective. Brasil has everything from high tech to low tech and is natural resource rich by comparison to many other places in the world. From an economic perspective. Having witnessed first hand the Brasilian economy and government from a post military closed economy to Henrique Cardoso's reias. The changes have created a much more stable and investment grade economy. Does Brasil have issues yet to tackle, yes of course. Is there any country from any part of this planet that really has the ability to provide critique to Brasil??? Oh yeah, I remember seeing this place, it's called Nirvana!!!!
Wake up! Taxing people without representation was invented by the Romans and perfected by the British! Credit!!! There aren't enough digits on your calculator to display the US national credit deficit!!
Brasilians are warm, upbeat people who go with the changes and somehow find time to enjoy life. Maybe the lesson too take from them is how to do that.
To all : May I draw your attention ?
written by ch.c., September 03, 2008
Re-read with more care the article stating "The fact that an ENTIRE FAMILY can be regarded as middle class by having an income of just over US$ 600 highlights how low wages still are in Brazil."
Therefore what the article continued with "Although this means that statistically speaking these Brazilians are as middle class as any bowler-hatted, brolly-twirling Englishman," is obviously dead wrong !!!!
Even more dead wrong knowing that Brits dont buy cars by paying their loans at 33 %, consumers goods at 55 % and overdraft rates at 163 % !!!!!!!!!
And sorry for you but in my country, not UK, we dont pay anything to send our children to public schools. Better yet our public schools offer a top education. And University is available to all through susidizes.
Vargas was an elected President but at other presidential terms he was a dictator ! Right ?
Funny that in the 21th century you still keep such a shameful name in some of your foundations recognized by your various governments !!!!!
Another proof that to some extend your country today remains a Banana
Republic disguised in a Democracy !
Furthermore in the 1930 under his reign, Brazil was considered as the "sleeping giant of Americas"
Wellll....nothing has changed by 2008 and you remain the sleeping giant of Americas"
If I already include Venezuela as a Mercosur member, then Brazil in 2007 stayed as the second poorest member based on GDP PPP per capita !!!!!!
But of course reading the Brazilians medias articles, Brazil is the wealthiest country. Sadly using pure lies from your Disinformation Dept at the Planalto in Brasilia.
Hmmmmmm !
Laugh....laugh....laugh....laugh...laugh
I've never seen a monument erected to a pessimist
written by Forrest Allen Brown, September 03, 2008
Hay Joao
how arew your military doing in haiti
are they still there ??
can they swim
Forrest
written by João da Silva, September 03, 2008
Hay Joao
how arew your military doing in haiti
are they still there ??
As far as I know, they are still there! Hopefully survived the hurricane. Sure they know how to swim,but it is more convenient to keep them there, lest they may start interfering in decision making process of our lawfully elected "Headman".
btw, Ch.c is so bloody right about Vargas and I wonder how he is so familiar with the Brazilian history.
João
written by The Guest, September 03, 2008
btw, Ch.c is so bloody right about Vargas and I wonder how he is so familiar with the Brazilian history.
Because despite what he says, he is a Brazilian who became a nationalized Swiss.
João
written by The Guest, September 04, 2008
Correction: naturalized Swiss
The Guest
written by João da Silva, September 04, 2008
Correction: naturalized Swiss
I dont think so. Born out of Swiss Brazilian parents and spent his youthful years in Brazil. I have asked him about this and he always avoids answering. I repeat: He is too well informed about Brazil.
On a lighter note: How you been doing and where are you?
João
written by The Guest, September 05, 2008
"On a lighter note: How you been doing and where are you?"
I am well and in St Croix. I took your suggestion and went back to Ricardo's article and caught up on the slugging match between him and Tom Lloyd. I wrote a comment to place there but deleted it before I up loaded it.
After reading the comments, I came to the conclusion that Ricardo is bent on the implementation of his plan as is, even if it has flaws that could be improved upon, and other people opinions are not welcome. I am convinced it is all about the implementation of his plan and not the future of Brazil and Brazilians even though he states otherwise.
When someone write about the importance of educational reform which needs to take place concurrently, and be a part of the economic development plan, so that all Brazilians could achieve economic and social welfare success, he find ways of twisting the writers words around with negative comments. Even more so if one does agree with him that Brazil would not benefit from the renationalization of Petrobras.
He relegates educational reform to the current "regular annual budget" as he states in the following to Tom Lloyd.
"I have no idea why you can't understand and can't grasp this simple point - the education and welfare programs it would be part of the regular annual budget of the Brazilian government."
"Why is is so hard for you to understand that education and welfare would continue in the same way that the current government programs have been providing the money for these areas."
The scary part of the words which he wrote are, "would continue in the same way," which means no subtantial increase in the funds required for 21st century educational reform. Who then would be the beneficiaries of his economic plan? Surely not Brazilians living in Brazil.
No one suggests he should design the educational reforms. However, the reforms should be funded as part of the economic development plan, and both should be implemented simultaneously.
The Guest
written by João da Silva, September 05, 2008
Hi,
I almost missed reading your comments on this thread and thanks for taking my suggestion and visiting the Ricardo´s article and his further comments.As you may have observed, I did not make any more comments for I came to the same conclusion as you have.If you recall, he had mentioned that he was not an expert on Education and now he retracted and seems to be backing the policy of the current government which is clueless. You may also remember his saying that the Brazilian Educational system was 200 years old and needed a complete overhaul and I did side with him. It was disappointing to see him saying:
"Why is is so hard for you to understand that education and welfare would continue in the same way that the current government programs have been providing the money for these areas."
It is so obvious that he does not know the reality on the ground here in Brazil and does not want to know either about how the educational system is being manipulated to suit the agenda of the government. Besides, he is unwilling to correct his "plan" and incorporate some changes suggested others.
To be honest with you, I don't think that Petrobras will ever be renationalized. It is more convenient for the government to maintain the "Status Quo" and provide employment with high salaries to their Cronies and manipulate the stats about our newly found "Oil Wealth". (Please see the article inwww.brazzilmag.com on Brazilian government declining an invitation from the Iranians to join OPEC. The commentator Dnb has something to say). As I keep on saying, when we undergo a political crisis, we hit a new oil well.
In fact, there was a proposal by the Politicians to create a separate state owned company to explore the oil underneath the pre-salt layer and Lula is not too enthusiastic about it (nor the President of Petrobras).
I think Ricardo has spent too many years overseas and when he comes back, he will find things to be different at home. If I were him, I would spend the next 2 years in NJ, watching the drama unfolding in Brazil in 2010. You must know what I am talking about.
Hope to see you inwww.brazzilmag.com before you set sail again. There are some new comers and you might enjoy debating with them too.
Take care.
João
written by The Guest, September 06, 2008
"It is so obvious that he does not know the reality on the ground here in Brazil..."
I agree with you and in the past I wrote about that fact.
"To be honest with you, I don't think that Petrobras will ever be renationalized."
I did not write about that issue in my initial response to Ricardo's article because I wanted to concentrate on the importance of educational reform being a part of the plan. The risks to Petrobras and the continual development of Brazil's oil and gas industry is not worth renationalization especially as petrobras gets ready to move into the pre-salt era of oilfield development. This is going to be the most expensive endeavour that any oil company has taken on. Why not share the risks and benefits with others?
"In fact, there was a proposal by the Politicians to create a separate state owned company to explore the oil underneath the pre-salt layer and Lula is not too enthusiastic about it (nor the President of Petrobras)."
I read about the proposal and support this idea as long as the company is not another petrobras, that is a full oil company. As a matter of fact, I was going to address this in my comments to Ricardo if he had answered the questions Ch. C., yourself and I asked him before I went to St. Kitts.
I believe the company should only be an exploration and holding company for all new oilfields ashore and offshore. It should be a national company which owns the fields but shares the rewards from the fields with national and foreign partners who help brazil explore and develope the fields.
I will not propose the revenue sharing formulas to be used here, but I think Brazil will realize more revenue from, and control over its oilfields under this scenerio verses the current system of selling blocks.
"If I were him, I would spend the next 2 years in NJ, watching the drama unfolding in Brazil in 2010. You must know what I am talking about."
I know exactly what you are talking about. See youwww.brazzilmag.com
...
written by Wagner, September 07, 2008
I won't say that it accounts for it all, but there is a fact that helps explaining the current state of poverty and disparity of incomes in Brazil: the april 1st 1964 military coup d'état, which, like all other constitution tearing rituals in Latin America, was planned and banked by the CIA. If it hadn't happened, maybe João Goulart would have carried out the unused lands distribution among small farmers; maybe Juscelino Kubitschek would have another mandate and finish his endeavors to further develop this country. Maybe our educational system wouldn't be one of the worst in the world. Maybe...
I know that it is too easy to blame americans and europeans for all the troubles in Latin America, but they did played a role in this soup opera. I don't have written prouf, but some people say that Lyndon Johnson once stated he "wouldn't want another Japan at the south of the Equator" (or the awakening of the "sleeping giant").
Someone said that Vargas should be wiped out of brazilian history books (or something like that) because he was a dictator. Yes, he was. But he also loved this country. Thanks to him, we have Petrobras and Vale today, instead of having our natural resources served on a plate to foreign corporations. Despite all the vicious qualities associated to any dictatorship, I think he should be considered a brazilian hero for delaying the military coup in 10 years when he put a bullet in his heart.
Forgive me if I sound too rhetorical. I think that's because today is the September 7th.
Thanks for your time.
hate to be a pesimist
written by Marco Zambini, September 09, 2008
I have dual Brasilian/British nationality... I hate to be pesimistic, but I was reading about this statistic when I was last in Brasil in August... They are classing 'middle class' as anyone who earns over R$1000 per month... I mean honestly, with the cost of living becoming closer to UK levels, R$1000 is surely poverty, with no hope of paying rent, health and food bills... I'm afraid this seems to be a case of 'massaging' the statistics...
I love Brasil because of the enormous potential it has, but progress comes from having a realisitc baseline, and this ain't it...
to Zambine from Augustus
written by AUGUSTUS, September 09, 2008
Similar to you, I have dual nationality (in my case US-Brazilian) and I fully agree with your view on this absurd classification of the “Brazilian Middle class”... It’s simply ridiculous! By this standard, Rocinha residents are now flouring bourgeois – LOL
I fear that Brasilia (led by a mostly corrupt "gang" of elected officials") is pursuing an unrealistic path to greatness, regardless of tools employed, in a silly valiant quest for recognition of the status of an “Emerging First World nation”, thus behaving like ICARUS, and will crash to Earth when approaches the sun!
...
written by João da Silva, September 10, 2008
I fear that Brasilia (led by a mostly corrupt "gang" of elected officials") is pursuing an unrealistic path to greatness, regardless of tools employed, in a silly valiant quest for recognition of the status of an “Emerging First World nation”, thus behaving like ICARUS, and will crash to Earth when approaches the sun!
You and Zambini both are right.Classify those uneducated mass (aided by Unions and our labor courts) who are earning R$1000 a month and elevate them to the status of "Middle Class". Then screw the real decent, educated and honest Brazilians (The REAL middle class) and bring them down by harassing them in diversified ways.
Just to understand what I am saying, please do get ready to read the report by the World Bank on "Doing Business with Brazil", to be released today.
btw, the educated Brazilians are curious, hard working , honest and hospitable folks. BUT BUT BUT, since 2003 we have adopted an arrogant stance towards other countries (especially our traditional trading partners as well as the new ones). What is the reason? Our distinguished blogger August has explained and I have reproduced his quote at the beginning of this comment of mine.
It is time for us to get back to the reality, instead of behaving like ICARUS.
Curious
written by siemprejulia, September 13, 2008
I worked in Brazil from 1992-2001 and went back for 4 months in 2003.
None of my Brazilian friends tell me that it's gotten better - so I'm curious: can any of you tell me if it really is different from 2003 or from the late 1990's.
All of you seem well-informed, or better informed than I am.
Thank you!
Written by John Fitzpatrick
Sunday, 24 August 2008 04:28
Statistics published by the FGV (Getúlio Vargas Foundation) business school show that almost 52% of households now earn between 1,064 and 4,591 Brazilian reais a month and are in the "C" class. (These figures amount roughly to US$ 625 and US$ 2,700, respectively.)
Although this means that statistically speaking these Brazilians are as middle class as any bowler-hatted, brolly-twirling Englishman, Brazil is still far from being a bourgeois nation in the European sense. Moreover, these results certainly do not mean that the poor are no longer with us.
The economist in charge of the study, Marcelo Néri, said the main reasons for this breakthrough were the rise in the formal workforce and the growing economy. Although President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva is the least middle class person who has ever held or is ever likely to hold the Presidency, he can boast that his policies have lifted millions into the middle class.
The survey shows that an estimated 20 million Brazilians have moved up the social scale over the last six years. Lula will be hoping that these new upwardly socially mobile Brazilians will show their gratitude by backing his candidate for the next presidential election - Dilma Rousseff is the current favorite - and his own candidacy if he chooses to seek office again in 2014.
As for ideology, Lula is too much of a pragmatist to feel that he may have "betrayed" his socialist past by turning the workers away from revolution and class warfare and towards bourgeois respectability, a house in the suburbs and a barbecue in the back garden.
Lula certainly deserves credit for overseeing economic growth which has led to record formal employment while implementing social programs which have improved the lot of millions of the poorest citizens. Another contributory factor has been the demographic revolution which has reduced the birth rate, as former finance minister, Antonio Delfim Netto, pointed out. The average Brazilian family had 1.6 children in 2001 compared with 5.8 in 1970.
However, being middle class in a European sense is not entirely linked to income. It means having a status which families will do anything to maintain. The English, in particular, are obsessed with the issue. George Orwell once described his background as being "lower upper middle class". The Irish playwright, George Bernard Shaw, once wrote with spot-on accuracy: "The moment an Englishman opens his mouth, another Englishman despises him."
How the middle class cope with genteel poverty is a recurring theme of English literature from Dickens, Somerset Maugham, Orwell, John Fowles and up to contemporary writers like Ruth Rendell. Who can forget Mr. Micawber's motto which he never managed to live up to and ended up in prison for defaulting on his debt: "Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds and six, result misery."
Maugham's "Of Human Bondage" is a classic example. The decision by the main character, Philip Carey, at the end of the book to renounce all the expectations of his middle class background and marry a simple girl whose father is a waster and mother an illiterate peasant was revolutionary for its time.
Maugham's short story "The Outstation", set in Borneo in the 1920s, is one of the greatest portrayals of the ridiculousness of the English class system. Snobbery is personified in the character of the colonial official Mr. Warburton who dresses for dinner every evening even though he lives alone in the middle of the tropical forest and reads a six-week old copy of "The Times" at breakfast.
Orwell's "A Clergyman's Daughter" covers the plight of the lower middle classes trying to hang onto their respectability, with the clergyman's daughter, Dorothy Hare, knowing that if things get any worse in her life the next level down is prostitution. The same is true for Sarah Woodruff in Fowles's classic "The French Lieutenant’s Woman".
J. B. Priestley's superb novel "Angel Pavement" has a memorable scene in which an impoverished middle class clerk, Turgis, decides to kill himself but fails when his gas meter runs out and he has no money to get it going again.
This obsession with class and status is probably best seen in "The Diary of a Nobody" by George and Weedon Grossmith, which created one of the most unforgettable characters in English literature, Charles Pooter of The Laurels, Brickfield Terrace, Holloway and his efforts to maintain his station in society in Victorian England.
In Brazil's case, being middle class is strictly related to income rather than family background, manners, the school you went to or accent. I imagine level for entry to the middle class was arrived at by multiplying the monthly minimum wage, which currently stands at 415 reais, by around two and a half times for the lower level and by 10 times for the top level.
The fact that an entire family can be regarded as middle class by having an income of just over US$ 600 highlights how low wages still are in Brazil. In world terms Brazil is in 71st place in terms of per capita income. Even within Latin America, it comes in 19th place, according to the national statistics institute, the IBGE, and the World Bank.
While the upper end of the income figure - 4,591 reais - is probably enough to give a family with two children a middle class life style comparable with that of a western European country, I am not so sure the same is true of the lower figure.
These figures apply to six big state capitals: São Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, Belo Horizonte, Salvador, Recife and Porto Alegre. I know São Paulo well and Rio to a lesser extent and cannot believe that a whole family can live a middle class life in either of these places on just over 1,000 reais a month.
In fact, entering the middle class can bring many disadvantages and borderline cases might be better off remaining in the "D" group. This may sound perverse but the reality is that the middle class pays taxes while the working class and those in the informal sector do not. Workers can earn up to 1,373 reais before they start paying income tax at a rate of 15% up to 2,743 reais when it rises to 27.5%. Contributions to the state pension scheme can range from 8% on a wage of 911 reais to 11% up to 3,038 reais.
Taxpayers get very little for their contributions and middle class people are burdened with additional expenses, usually related to school fees, private health insurance plans and security i.e. living in blocks of flats with round the clock security. All this comes at a price. It can easily cost 1,000 reais to send a child to school and the condominium costs on even a modest building can come to 1,000 reais. A decent monthly health plan for a family can also reach 1,000 reais.
To pay all this means earning piles of money or taking out loans. As the economy has expanded and price stability has become established, the government has relaxed credit regulations and loans are easy to come by. Bank and finance houses are scrambling to offer loans to working class and middle class families to buy cars, homes and electronic appliances.
This means that a "new" middle class family in Brazil may well have no real assets to fall back on in case of an emergency and may have a long line of debts to be paid off.
The magazine Época gave a good example of one of these new members of the middle class. She is a 34-year-old manicurist called Josineide Mendes Tavares who lives with her two young children in the Rocinha favela in Rio de Janeiro. She visits her clients in their homes in the rich districts of Rio and earns between 1,500 and 2,000 reais a month. She and her children live in a tiny house ("casinha") measuring 35 square meters (377 square feet).
She has a new 29-inch television with access to cable and a DVD, a dishwasher and stylish clothes. She has just bought a fridge and freezer on credit and is about to buy her third mobile phone which she uses to keep in touch with her clients. Statistically this woman fits in with the definition of the new middle class but no European or American would consider someone living in conditions like this as being middle class.
In fact it might be better to describe these people as "middle income" and forget European ideas of class completely. As Delfim Netto, who oversaw the boom years of the 60s and 70s, put it: "The size of the income is not as important as the fact that the people feel they have made progress. A wage plus readily abundant credit allows them to buy middle class goods."
John Fitzpatrick is a Scottish writer and consultant with long experience of Brazil. He is based in São Paulo and runs his own company Celtic Comunicações. This article originally appeared on his sitewww.brazilpoliticalcomment.com.br. He can be contacted at jf@celt.com.br This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it .
© John Fitzpatrick 2008
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Comments (34)
We don't mind what American or European people think.
written by Carles, August 24, 2008
European/American (middle class thats fynny)
European people use to come to Brasil like rats inside the ships, carrying 10 children plus one on the womb. Starving, full of deseases.
So what they think about us is not important remember who came down here and asked for food in the first time were the Europeans.
Another thing: its time to Think "What do the Chinese think about Brazil?"
America is broken and they will take Europe with them.
Bad Luck!!!
Congrats!
written by Flavio, August 24, 2008
Hey John!
Loved the article. The explanation of the difference between an European (or English) middle class and a the Brazilian emerging middle class is just fantastic!
The analysis about Lula's part in this process is also excellent. I'm actually having a hard time to find someone with an unbiased view like yours to comment on Brazil's politics and economics. Everyone here is either extremely in favor or extremely against Lula's government. No one is in the middle, or outside to make a REAL analysis of Brazil's situation.
Thanks
Flavio
Sao Paulo
warning about the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow
written bymichaelj, August 24, 2008
This is good news for Brazil. An improving economy and empowerment of the people is a wonderful transformation. As this then continues there is something to keep your eyes on in your own behavior... But you may not see it for years, and America is the perfect example of this problem.
More money means more buying power and consumption. Credit adds gas to the consumerism fire. In America we regularly outpace our earnings by spending. The temptation is overwhelming. Every dollar spent feels like a reward, even when you spend the borrowed money after a while.
Today in America many are running into the wall and have taken on too much debt and are struggling to maintain our over extended lives. I know, poor poor rich Americans, but it's the same core problem everyone will face with consumerism on an extreme scale.
The lesson to learn is simple. When we over extend ourselves financially in what feels like reward is actually a pair of golden hand cuffs. Credit is dangerous yet a powerful tool in carefully chosen amounts. Keep yourself free by keeping more and spending less.
classe média a;ta in Brazil = classe média in Europe
written by Kauan, August 24, 2008
classe média
hum num sei
até na Rocinha tem a internete, a gente é de classe média?
...
written by João da Silva, August 24, 2008
As Delfim Netto, who oversaw the boom years of the 60s and 70s, put it: "The size of the income is not as important as the fact that the people feel they have made progress. A wage plus readily abundant credit allows them to buy middle class goods."
Lula & Delfim know what is good for the Brazilians. Men of long vision.
A Correction
written by João da Silva, August 24, 2008
Men of long vision.
I meant to say "Men of long term vision" and "Great visionaries".
To Carles the brazilian junkie !
written by ch.c., August 24, 2008
Your "European people use to come to Brasil like rats inside the ships"
1) What are your sources ? You should have some in view of your apparent knowledge.
2) dear idiot, let me state loudly and clearly that if you are not from an Indian tribe origin, you are talking about your own ancestrors !!!!!! Funny isnt it ? Feel free to call your ancestrors as rats.
3) to my own knowledge that you can cross check by yourself, it is the Brazilian government who opened the country to whites,......to WHITEN THE COUNTRY ! Meaning if you are not 100% white, the probabilities are high that YOURSELF has been crossbred with a Brazilian black slave at one point in time in the history of your family ancestrors.
4) Lets face it once more, You Carles based upon your theory, are not more Brazilian than the ones you accuse, unless you are from an Indian tribe.
5) Feel free as you wish to call the Brazilians whites, the Brazilians browns or the Brazilians blacks....as NON Brazilians. You should be one of them anyway.
6) Furthermore, to my knowledge it is due to the whites you are accusing that the South of the country is the most developed and the most wealthy and not due to the technology and knowledge from your Indians. Without these whites you would be without a car, without a tractor, without a PC. You would be as developed as the Vanuatu Islands tribes or the Sub Sahara.
Your idioty is realy impressive.
If you play futbol you should be the king of auto goals !
More simple there is not.
Laugh....laugh....laugh....laugh....laugh....laugh !
Somewhat funny " Brazil Becomes Middle Class But Not Bourgeois "
written by ch.c., August 25, 2008
As per IBGE own stats the average monthly income in the six wealthiest metropolitan regions is BRL 1250.- or so !
Meaning a much lower average in the majority parts of the country.
Also on average even in the six wealthiest metro regions, 1 average income feeds more than 1 person.
A Brazilian teacher should be middle class, with at least an average income, but is not so as per Buarque recent article.
An average middle class person has a car, even a small one. Brazil car fleet is around 24 millions, 1 per 8 capita !!!!!
The GDP PPP adjusted per capita is higher in MOST Mercosur countries than in Brazil !
Facts and stats then prove that most Mercosur countries have a higher middle class. Further confirmed by the stats Brazil has the highest wealth inequality of all of the Mercosur countries and close to the worst in the world.
But Brazilians firmly insist they are far far far superior to the other Mercosur members.....as usual.
Wellllllll....here it is......GDP PPP per capita :
Brazil US$ 9700.-
Argentina 13300.-
Uruguay 11700.-
Venezuela 12200.-
Paraguay 4500.-
I feel sorry for you. You are the second POOREST !
Stop caressing your navel, start scratching your head !!!!!!
Not over : your real GDP per capita is US$ 6850.- non PPP adjusted. that explains better your low car fleet per capita.
Funny also that your paved roads are even less that your official stats because everyone can go to the World Cia Factbook and read for Brazil :
total: 1,751,868 km
paved: 96,353 km
unpaved: 1,655,515 km (2004)
Paved roads to be adjusted downward in view of the millions and millions of potholes in 50 % of your "not so paved roads".
I can only suppose that in view of your car fleet growth rate and your 5,5 % of actual paved roads available (in fact 2,75 % without potholes) your traffic jams will expand outside of your cities and highways will also become traffic jams. Otherwise driving in potholes roads or non paved roads will be expensive for cars maintenance and repairs.
But that will be good for foreign cars manufacturers, because none are Brazilian.
Conclusion : Your Propaganda department in the Palacio do Planalto - Brasilia is doing a great job : they manipulate stats, they lie, and you applaude and caress your navel !
Who are the real idiots ? the ones lying and manipulating or the ones swallowing their lies ?
...
written by Ric, August 25, 2008
Yes, the Brazilian Idle Rich caress their navels, and many of the women tweezer out their body hair one at a time out of sheer boredom.
Gente boa é outra coisa.
´1) What are your sources ? You should have some in view of your apparent knowledge. ´
written by history book, August 26, 2008
Starting after slavery was abolished, any primer on Brazilian history will show how waves of dirt poor Euoropeans looking for a better life came to Brasil.
...
written by Carles, August 26, 2008
I LOVE CHINA!!!!!!
...
written by Carles, August 26, 2008
THE TRUTH HURTS!!!! ah ah ah ah ah
Bourgeois??????????
written by Pietrito, August 26, 2008
Students will investigate the reasons Italians left their homeland. Between 1880 and 1920 over four million Italians were recorded as entering the United States. No other ethnic group has sent so many immigrants in such a short time. Prior to the 1870's only scattered thousands of Italians had come to areas outside of Europe to either North or South America. Up to 1900 most Italians had emigrated to either Argentina or Brazil. Those entering the United States were mostly male and many intended to return to Italy after making some money. However, for various reasons many of them ended up staying in America.
(Daniels,p.18
Much has been written about the suffering and discrimination encountered by the Italian immigrant in the United States, but this must be measured against what they left behind at home in Italy. The immigrant at this time left one thing behind and that was poverty. At home there was unemployment, and underemployment, high mortality, little or no medical care, little or no schooling, poor housing, semi-starvation, rigid class structure, and exploitation. (Mangione,p.25.) A very dismal picture, to say the least. For the average Italian migration was an opportunity for liberation; the hope for a better life. After all wasn't the United States supposed to be the land of opportunity where the "streets were paved with gold?" This would be a good time for teachers to stop and ask students what would motivate them to leave their country of birth? There are always students in my class who are foreign born and are willing to relate their stories to other members of the class.........
To history book the real idiot !
written by ch.c., August 26, 2008
- since you are not a primer, tell us your sources for once...if you can.
Did you also got your Masters Degree in history from the SP Univeraity....found in detergent packs ?
- Funny your statement "Starting after slavery was abolished" because there is no need to go to an history book or your Constitution to find out that slavery was abolished only with words, not in real life.
Thousands of slaves are freed yearly even in 2008 as per your own stats. And this despite your Vice President publicly announced there are no slaves in Brazil sugarcane fields.
Who is lying ?
A) Your Constitution
B) Your news and stats about freeing slaves
C) Your Vice President
D) All of the above because B is only the tip of the iceberg
Ohhh and concerning the Brazil Middle Class, why dont you read today article in this site on the so generous annual interests rates they pay for cars loans at 33 %, consumers loans at 53 % and 163 % for overdrafts when inflation is around 4-7 % ???????
You see the real idiots are not the lenders but the borrowers allowing and even applauding when they are taken for a ride.
And based on the article, the minimum number of idiots in Brazil stands at 100 millions.
Feel free to continue your applauses to the ones you elected.
They work hard for you to remain as idiot as you have been teached to be. This is the the base of their ideology : "the brazilian education should create idiots not clever and educated people, so that the minority elite can continue to take the idiots they created for many more rides"
Red faced ? You better be so by applauding the interests rates you are charged !!!!!
Brazilians Junkies will remain junkies for centuries to come !
This is the only promise Bin the Crook and his sucessors will deliver !
You have no idea of how I keep laughing ! So much I have stomach pain !
...
written by ..., August 27, 2008
Holy laughing icons!!
Unrealistic Expectations
written by AUGUSTUS, August 27, 2008
It appears that Brazil's excessive over-confidence is out of control!
As much as it hurts agreeing with the European Hyena's criticisms, it is an undeniable fact that Brazil is not entitled to claim such "middle class" status for most of its citizens...
To lower the standards to fit Certan "categories" is not only unfair but it also compromises the way foreign countries would view Brazil's intentions...
The example of a "Rocinha" resident to be considered Middle-Class is absolutely hilarious and... very sad! It is not surprising that we find unfriendly "Hyenas" in this blog, continuously laughing at the nation, humiliating our country at every step... After reading this article, their arguments are easily reinforced, and their "laughter" is even understandable...
Perhaps after the crumbling infra-structure is addressed, the under priviledged educated, and metropolitan crime waves addressed, unused land distributed to the homeless, and less income disparity can be certified... maybe THEN, the anti-Brazilian "hyenas" of the world can be silenced, and real, honest gains can be proudly displayed for the world to see... Not Now!
Well done Brasil
written byJohn Cox, August 27, 2008
That's great news, but I really think Brasil has a long way to go.
Why the hysteria from some of the commentors? Is it because they cannot read and comprehend.
written by The Guest, August 30, 2008
The last paragraph of the article which I copied below speaks for its self.
"In fact it might be better to describe these people as "middle income" and forget European ideas of class completely. As Delfim Netto, who oversaw the boom years of the 60s and 70s, put it: "The size of the income is not as important as the fact that the people feel they have made progress. A wage plus readily abundant credit allows them to buy middle class goods."
In the USA a few short years ago prior to the current housing debacle, quite a few people of the "middle class" who were making over $50,000.00 a year but could not afford the rent for an apartment. They slept in their cars and took showers at the gym. Now, add the current housing crisis to the mix, what would you call these people, "middle class or middle income?" I call them "middle income" who cannot afford "to buy middle class goods," and even if they could they have no place to put these goods.
At least Brazil's "middle income" earners have some thing to look froward to instead of the bleak prospect below.
Middle class barely treads water, 9/15/2003
By Christine Dugas, USA TODAY
"Millions of middle-class families can no longer afford to live on two incomes.
A generation ago, a typical American middle-class family lived on the income of a single breadwinner. In recent years it has taken two working spouses to live the modern middle-class dream. Now, it seems even that is not enough to survive the skyrocketing cost of housing, health care and college while saving for retirement and shouldering growing debt loads.
Bill and Terry Will of Chesapeake, Va., together earn about $70,000 a year, and yet it's a struggle to provide for their family and pay off their credit card debt. Terry, 44, is a nurse and Bill, 50, manages a warehouse that ships food and supplies to other countries.
The Wills have five children at home, ages 2 to 17. They budget every penny and have no savings, no college fund, no retirement nest egg.
Like many middle-class families — often broadly defined as those earning $25,000 to $99,999 — the Wills have little room to maneuver if something unexpected comes up. They barely survived when Bill's job as an oil company sales manager was eliminated in 1999. They came close to losing their home and nearly ended up in bankruptcy before they went to a non-profit credit counseling agency for help.
What happened to the Wills is being repeated in legions of middle-class homes across the USA. With personal bankruptcy at an all-time high, it's mostly the middle class that gets trapped: 92% of the record 1.6 million filers in the year ended June 30 were middle class, according to a Harvard University study.
The Wills acknowledge that they didn't know much about managing money before they went into debt counseling, but they didn't live beyond their means.
"We didn't have cable TV before, and we still don't," Terry says. "We used credit cards to pay for diapers, food and school stuff.""
Brazil
written by Paul James Oliphant , August 31, 2008
If Brazil is doing so well, try and tell the poor millions that who are living in poverty in the favelas.
Fan
written by JamesL, September 02, 2008
Brasil like many countries has social and economic problems. Brasil's government, like most governments, has it's own set of issues. Comparing who's problems are bigger or who's government is more corrupt, is like comparing the wetness of water from one river to another.
Getting back to the point here. Brasil says the middle class is earning enough to be considered "middle class" and in truth if you spend any time in Sao Paulo or Rio you will quickly find that this "classification" could very well be a national average not unlike the way the US says that the "middle class" earns $XX, when one can only dream of living in, or near, any major city in the US with such income.
From a market perspective. Brasil is huge. From a production perspective. Brasil has everything from high tech to low tech and is natural resource rich by comparison to many other places in the world. From an economic perspective. Having witnessed first hand the Brasilian economy and government from a post military closed economy to Henrique Cardoso's reias. The changes have created a much more stable and investment grade economy. Does Brasil have issues yet to tackle, yes of course. Is there any country from any part of this planet that really has the ability to provide critique to Brasil??? Oh yeah, I remember seeing this place, it's called Nirvana!!!!
Wake up! Taxing people without representation was invented by the Romans and perfected by the British! Credit!!! There aren't enough digits on your calculator to display the US national credit deficit!!
Brasilians are warm, upbeat people who go with the changes and somehow find time to enjoy life. Maybe the lesson too take from them is how to do that.
To all : May I draw your attention ?
written by ch.c., September 03, 2008
Re-read with more care the article stating "The fact that an ENTIRE FAMILY can be regarded as middle class by having an income of just over US$ 600 highlights how low wages still are in Brazil."
Therefore what the article continued with "Although this means that statistically speaking these Brazilians are as middle class as any bowler-hatted, brolly-twirling Englishman," is obviously dead wrong !!!!
Even more dead wrong knowing that Brits dont buy cars by paying their loans at 33 %, consumers goods at 55 % and overdraft rates at 163 % !!!!!!!!!
And sorry for you but in my country, not UK, we dont pay anything to send our children to public schools. Better yet our public schools offer a top education. And University is available to all through susidizes.
Vargas was an elected President but at other presidential terms he was a dictator ! Right ?
Funny that in the 21th century you still keep such a shameful name in some of your foundations recognized by your various governments !!!!!
Another proof that to some extend your country today remains a Banana
Republic disguised in a Democracy !
Furthermore in the 1930 under his reign, Brazil was considered as the "sleeping giant of Americas"
Wellll....nothing has changed by 2008 and you remain the sleeping giant of Americas"
If I already include Venezuela as a Mercosur member, then Brazil in 2007 stayed as the second poorest member based on GDP PPP per capita !!!!!!
But of course reading the Brazilians medias articles, Brazil is the wealthiest country. Sadly using pure lies from your Disinformation Dept at the Planalto in Brasilia.
Hmmmmmm !
Laugh....laugh....laugh....laugh...laugh
I've never seen a monument erected to a pessimist
written by Forrest Allen Brown, September 03, 2008
Hay Joao
how arew your military doing in haiti
are they still there ??
can they swim
Forrest
written by João da Silva, September 03, 2008
Hay Joao
how arew your military doing in haiti
are they still there ??
As far as I know, they are still there! Hopefully survived the hurricane. Sure they know how to swim,but it is more convenient to keep them there, lest they may start interfering in decision making process of our lawfully elected "Headman".
btw, Ch.c is so bloody right about Vargas and I wonder how he is so familiar with the Brazilian history.
João
written by The Guest, September 03, 2008
btw, Ch.c is so bloody right about Vargas and I wonder how he is so familiar with the Brazilian history.
Because despite what he says, he is a Brazilian who became a nationalized Swiss.
João
written by The Guest, September 04, 2008
Correction: naturalized Swiss
The Guest
written by João da Silva, September 04, 2008
Correction: naturalized Swiss
I dont think so. Born out of Swiss Brazilian parents and spent his youthful years in Brazil. I have asked him about this and he always avoids answering. I repeat: He is too well informed about Brazil.
On a lighter note: How you been doing and where are you?
João
written by The Guest, September 05, 2008
"On a lighter note: How you been doing and where are you?"
I am well and in St Croix. I took your suggestion and went back to Ricardo's article and caught up on the slugging match between him and Tom Lloyd. I wrote a comment to place there but deleted it before I up loaded it.
After reading the comments, I came to the conclusion that Ricardo is bent on the implementation of his plan as is, even if it has flaws that could be improved upon, and other people opinions are not welcome. I am convinced it is all about the implementation of his plan and not the future of Brazil and Brazilians even though he states otherwise.
When someone write about the importance of educational reform which needs to take place concurrently, and be a part of the economic development plan, so that all Brazilians could achieve economic and social welfare success, he find ways of twisting the writers words around with negative comments. Even more so if one does agree with him that Brazil would not benefit from the renationalization of Petrobras.
He relegates educational reform to the current "regular annual budget" as he states in the following to Tom Lloyd.
"I have no idea why you can't understand and can't grasp this simple point - the education and welfare programs it would be part of the regular annual budget of the Brazilian government."
"Why is is so hard for you to understand that education and welfare would continue in the same way that the current government programs have been providing the money for these areas."
The scary part of the words which he wrote are, "would continue in the same way," which means no subtantial increase in the funds required for 21st century educational reform. Who then would be the beneficiaries of his economic plan? Surely not Brazilians living in Brazil.
No one suggests he should design the educational reforms. However, the reforms should be funded as part of the economic development plan, and both should be implemented simultaneously.
The Guest
written by João da Silva, September 05, 2008
Hi,
I almost missed reading your comments on this thread and thanks for taking my suggestion and visiting the Ricardo´s article and his further comments.As you may have observed, I did not make any more comments for I came to the same conclusion as you have.If you recall, he had mentioned that he was not an expert on Education and now he retracted and seems to be backing the policy of the current government which is clueless. You may also remember his saying that the Brazilian Educational system was 200 years old and needed a complete overhaul and I did side with him. It was disappointing to see him saying:
"Why is is so hard for you to understand that education and welfare would continue in the same way that the current government programs have been providing the money for these areas."
It is so obvious that he does not know the reality on the ground here in Brazil and does not want to know either about how the educational system is being manipulated to suit the agenda of the government. Besides, he is unwilling to correct his "plan" and incorporate some changes suggested others.
To be honest with you, I don't think that Petrobras will ever be renationalized. It is more convenient for the government to maintain the "Status Quo" and provide employment with high salaries to their Cronies and manipulate the stats about our newly found "Oil Wealth". (Please see the article inwww.brazzilmag.com on Brazilian government declining an invitation from the Iranians to join OPEC. The commentator Dnb has something to say). As I keep on saying, when we undergo a political crisis, we hit a new oil well.
In fact, there was a proposal by the Politicians to create a separate state owned company to explore the oil underneath the pre-salt layer and Lula is not too enthusiastic about it (nor the President of Petrobras).
I think Ricardo has spent too many years overseas and when he comes back, he will find things to be different at home. If I were him, I would spend the next 2 years in NJ, watching the drama unfolding in Brazil in 2010. You must know what I am talking about.
Hope to see you inwww.brazzilmag.com before you set sail again. There are some new comers and you might enjoy debating with them too.
Take care.
João
written by The Guest, September 06, 2008
"It is so obvious that he does not know the reality on the ground here in Brazil..."
I agree with you and in the past I wrote about that fact.
"To be honest with you, I don't think that Petrobras will ever be renationalized."
I did not write about that issue in my initial response to Ricardo's article because I wanted to concentrate on the importance of educational reform being a part of the plan. The risks to Petrobras and the continual development of Brazil's oil and gas industry is not worth renationalization especially as petrobras gets ready to move into the pre-salt era of oilfield development. This is going to be the most expensive endeavour that any oil company has taken on. Why not share the risks and benefits with others?
"In fact, there was a proposal by the Politicians to create a separate state owned company to explore the oil underneath the pre-salt layer and Lula is not too enthusiastic about it (nor the President of Petrobras)."
I read about the proposal and support this idea as long as the company is not another petrobras, that is a full oil company. As a matter of fact, I was going to address this in my comments to Ricardo if he had answered the questions Ch. C., yourself and I asked him before I went to St. Kitts.
I believe the company should only be an exploration and holding company for all new oilfields ashore and offshore. It should be a national company which owns the fields but shares the rewards from the fields with national and foreign partners who help brazil explore and develope the fields.
I will not propose the revenue sharing formulas to be used here, but I think Brazil will realize more revenue from, and control over its oilfields under this scenerio verses the current system of selling blocks.
"If I were him, I would spend the next 2 years in NJ, watching the drama unfolding in Brazil in 2010. You must know what I am talking about."
I know exactly what you are talking about. See youwww.brazzilmag.com
...
written by Wagner, September 07, 2008
I won't say that it accounts for it all, but there is a fact that helps explaining the current state of poverty and disparity of incomes in Brazil: the april 1st 1964 military coup d'état, which, like all other constitution tearing rituals in Latin America, was planned and banked by the CIA. If it hadn't happened, maybe João Goulart would have carried out the unused lands distribution among small farmers; maybe Juscelino Kubitschek would have another mandate and finish his endeavors to further develop this country. Maybe our educational system wouldn't be one of the worst in the world. Maybe...
I know that it is too easy to blame americans and europeans for all the troubles in Latin America, but they did played a role in this soup opera. I don't have written prouf, but some people say that Lyndon Johnson once stated he "wouldn't want another Japan at the south of the Equator" (or the awakening of the "sleeping giant").
Someone said that Vargas should be wiped out of brazilian history books (or something like that) because he was a dictator. Yes, he was. But he also loved this country. Thanks to him, we have Petrobras and Vale today, instead of having our natural resources served on a plate to foreign corporations. Despite all the vicious qualities associated to any dictatorship, I think he should be considered a brazilian hero for delaying the military coup in 10 years when he put a bullet in his heart.
Forgive me if I sound too rhetorical. I think that's because today is the September 7th.
Thanks for your time.
hate to be a pesimist
written by Marco Zambini, September 09, 2008
I have dual Brasilian/British nationality... I hate to be pesimistic, but I was reading about this statistic when I was last in Brasil in August... They are classing 'middle class' as anyone who earns over R$1000 per month... I mean honestly, with the cost of living becoming closer to UK levels, R$1000 is surely poverty, with no hope of paying rent, health and food bills... I'm afraid this seems to be a case of 'massaging' the statistics...
I love Brasil because of the enormous potential it has, but progress comes from having a realisitc baseline, and this ain't it...
to Zambine from Augustus
written by AUGUSTUS, September 09, 2008
Similar to you, I have dual nationality (in my case US-Brazilian) and I fully agree with your view on this absurd classification of the “Brazilian Middle class”... It’s simply ridiculous! By this standard, Rocinha residents are now flouring bourgeois – LOL
I fear that Brasilia (led by a mostly corrupt "gang" of elected officials") is pursuing an unrealistic path to greatness, regardless of tools employed, in a silly valiant quest for recognition of the status of an “Emerging First World nation”, thus behaving like ICARUS, and will crash to Earth when approaches the sun!
...
written by João da Silva, September 10, 2008
I fear that Brasilia (led by a mostly corrupt "gang" of elected officials") is pursuing an unrealistic path to greatness, regardless of tools employed, in a silly valiant quest for recognition of the status of an “Emerging First World nation”, thus behaving like ICARUS, and will crash to Earth when approaches the sun!
You and Zambini both are right.Classify those uneducated mass (aided by Unions and our labor courts) who are earning R$1000 a month and elevate them to the status of "Middle Class". Then screw the real decent, educated and honest Brazilians (The REAL middle class) and bring them down by harassing them in diversified ways.
Just to understand what I am saying, please do get ready to read the report by the World Bank on "Doing Business with Brazil", to be released today.
btw, the educated Brazilians are curious, hard working , honest and hospitable folks. BUT BUT BUT, since 2003 we have adopted an arrogant stance towards other countries (especially our traditional trading partners as well as the new ones). What is the reason? Our distinguished blogger August has explained and I have reproduced his quote at the beginning of this comment of mine.
It is time for us to get back to the reality, instead of behaving like ICARUS.
Curious
written by siemprejulia, September 13, 2008
I worked in Brazil from 1992-2001 and went back for 4 months in 2003.
None of my Brazilian friends tell me that it's gotten better - so I'm curious: can any of you tell me if it really is different from 2003 or from the late 1990's.
All of you seem well-informed, or better informed than I am.
Thank you!